Q&A: MARK PENN
Transcript: Mark Penn On Hillary Clinton's Strengths Against Barack Obama And John McCain

© National Journal Group Inc.
Friday, Feb. 8, 2008

National Journal's Linda Douglass sat down with Mark Penn for the Feb. 8 edition of "National Journal On Air." This is a transcript of their conversation. Audio of the full show is also available.

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Q: I'd like to introduce Mark Penn. He is the chief strategist for the campaign of Hillary Clinton. Welcome, Mark.

Penn: Thanks for having me.

Q: So you have been writing, in some your memos that we all love to read, that the results of the last several weeks and days have shown that while Barack Obama may be able to get people to turn out in big numbers, he doesn't seem to be able to close the deal. Why do you think that is?

Penn: Well first, Senator Clinton has been getting people to turn out in very big numbers. I think that you have seen she is actually ahead in the popular vote in terms of the people who voted, and even in places like Michigan and Florida, enormous numbers of people turned out for her. I think that the Democratic Party as a whole is getting people, I think, out, but I do think that there are some big differences here.

Senator Clinton is ready on day one and is really running a campaign of substance about the issues: that she's got a universal health care plan, one that will cover each and every person throughout America; she has a plan to deal with the foreclosure and mortgage crisis and get the economy on track. I think that people who are looking for someone who is ready to be president, who will really not just talk about the changes we need but whom they believe can really get it done... And I think a big difference here is that they are seeing that she is a person of substance, and that's drawing out a lot more people, and a lot of people who are making their decisions on the last day chose Hillary.

Q: So are you saying that he is not a candidate of substance?

Penn: Well, I think people have to judge each of these candidates for themselves…

Q: But you are making that point, so I just want to pursue why you're using that as a point of contrast.

Penn: Well I think it's fair to say, and I noticed that Mr. Klein had a column today on this very topic. I think it's fair to say that she is running a very substantive campaign -- you know what she stands for, you know the details of it, you have a sense that when she gets in on day one, what she's going to do, how she's going to start ending the Iraq war, how she's going to start working on universal health care, how she's going to restart stem cell research. I think she's very clear; she's very specific. I think, though, that there is a contrast. I think she is running a campaign of substance about giving people a clear sense of what she'll do as president and how she'll really bring the changes that people need, that she'll really hear their voices and act upon them.

Q: You've said that Barack Obama would not necessarily be the best general election candidate because voters really have very limited information about him, and he hasn't been vetted. What do you think is likely to come out? What do we need to know more about?

Penn: Well, you know, I don't know. Senator Clinton has been fully vetted, fully tested. She's won two landslide elections against Republicans. She's not only an open book, but 60 books have been written about her. So I think you are looking at someone who has already been through a process and shown, I think, that she knows how to defeat the Republicans. And I think with Senator McCain emerging as the likely nominee, it's particularly important to have someone ready to assume the presidency as she is.

In terms of Barack Obama, the only question I raised is that people have a limited amount of information about his record, what he voted for, and I think those kinds of things will be new information in a general election campaign. And she's just somebody who frankly has already been vetted and already tested, and therefore I think is a very strong candidate against somebody like John McCain.

Q: Do you see John McCain as a pretty formidable opponent?

Penn: Well, I think that she has been on the Armed Services Committee -- I think people believe she is ready to be commander in chief; I think you see it in the exit polls. So I think that John McCain could not beat her on the national security issue. I think she would be a very strong candidate.

Q: And could he beat Barack Obama on that issue?

Penn: Well, all I can tell you is that she is very strong on it. And also, when it comes to the economy, John McCain has said he does not know all that much about the economy, and she has a proven strategy for turning this economy around. And I think when you look at who is ready to manage the economy and be commander in chief, that makes her a very strong campaigner next to John McCain.

Q: If it should turn out that neither Senator Clinton or Senator Obama got the majority of delegates, how do you think the public would react if the superdelegates, who are these elected officials and party faithful insiders, were to make the difference in who got the nomination?

Penn: Well, of course, many of these superdelegates are elected officials; many of them are, frankly, in the big states which Senator Clinton won the popular vote on. I think the bigger question here is not so much about the superdelegates, but 1.7 million people voted in Florida -- they had a record turnout; they fully expect that their votes should count. Civil rights leaders have recently written to Howard Dean and said, you know, you can't let this go to the convention, you have to resolve this in a way that recognizes the voters; Florida can't have this happen to them again. People of Michigan also had enormous turnout.

The important question here is, would a nominee who won New York , California, won throughout the Southwest, won states like Tennessee, Oklahoma, Michigan and Florida -- someone who won so many states across the board, including so many big states where there are enormous numbers of Democrats -- isn't it important to have a nominee who has done precisely that?

Q: Well, thank you so much to Mark Penn, who is the chief strategist for Hillary Clinton -- a very, very busy several weeks ahead of you. We really appreciate your joining us on the program.

Penn: Thank you so much.