Q&A: TOM DASCHLE
Transcript: Tom Daschle On The Obama-Clinton Battle

© National Journal Group Inc.
Friday, March 7, 2008

National Journal On Air with Linda Douglass
Tom Daschle

National Journal's Ronald Brownstein sat down with former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle for the March 7 edition of "National Journal On Air." This is a transcript of their conversation. Audio of the full show is also available.


Q: Senator Tom Daschle, welcome to "National Journal On-Air."
Daschle: Thank you, Ron. Good to be with you.
Q: Senator, the presidential race this week seemed to be at match point -- where Barack Obama had a chance, many believe, to end the race if he won Ohio or Texas. He could not deliver that final blow. What went wrong?
Daschle: Well, I really dispute the notion that there was going to be a final blow, Ron. He actually did pretty well. He got 183 new delegates; Hillary only got 187. To date now he has won 28 out of 43 contests, and I don't think anything went wrong. He made up a 20-point deficit in Texas and Ohio, and so we feel pretty good about where we are. We're ready for the next round and feeling very good about our ultimate success. He's going to win this; it's just going to take a little longer.
Q: Well, let me ask you about the length question. After Senator Clinton's wins in Ohio and Texas, do you see any realistic way this can be decided before the June 7 primary in Puerto Rico?
Daschle: Well, I think it depends a lot on how Hillary Clinton perceives her own circumstances. She'd have to win 60 percent of all the votes in every single upcoming election -- and there are 12 of them left -- in order for her to succeed. At some point I think mathematically it becomes clearer and clearer that that's just not going to happen. So she has to make that decision; Barack can't.
Q: Given what you are saying, do you feel that she should drop out of the race at some point along the way?
Daschle: Well, again, there are many reasons to stay in the race. She may feel that she wants to take this campaign to the convention, and she may suspend her campaign but not release her delegates. There's any one of a number of options available to her. We're certainly not going to discourage her or ask her to get out. That's only a decision she can make.
Q: Well, one thing we saw again this week: Senator Clinton amassed enormous margins among white voters without college degrees in both Ohio and Texas -- essentially the white working class. Except for Wisconsin, she has now won white working class voters in every state that we have exit polls for. Why is Obama having so much difficulty with those voters?
Daschle: Well, Ron, you are probably a lot better at this than I am. But I challenge that assertion, I mean, I look at what happened in Vermont and Virginia. I look at what happened in so many states where in all categories, he has done extremely well with all categories of voters, and she has had some occasions where she has done well, as well. But I certainly wouldn't say that those are her voters exclusively.
Q: Well, the numbers are... I mean, at least from the exit polls, even in states like Virginia, she did win the non-college white voters. There were more of those better-educated, more affluent white voters who seemed to find him more congenial and are moving to him in bigger numbers. When you go ahead to Pennsylvania, though -- can you win a state like Pennsylvania without significantly improving on the showings that he recorded in Ohio and Texas among those blue collar, white voters?
Daschle: Well, we haven't even been in the state yet. We haven't run the first ad, and we've closed the gap from 20 points to six points, Ron. So I feel very good. We've got six weeks to go. Every time we've had the opportunity to put the organization in place and had the kind of time we really need to get the job done, unlike Texas and Ohio, we win. I think Pennsylvania is going to be very competitive, and we feel very good about our prospects there.
Q: In a call with reporters this week, David Axelrod, the senior strategist for the campaign, said, "I don't think there is any candidate in this campaign that has been vetted less than Senator Clinton." What aspects of Clinton's record or finances does the Obama campaign believe need to be more carefully explored?
Daschle: Well, it's hard to explore when you don't have transparency. And as you know, you don't have transparency. You have no way of knowing what they paid in taxes, how much income they derived, how the money was spent for the presidential library. There are so many questions out there involving finances. I think it's time that the Clintons do what Barack Obama has done consistently: release their tax returns. I'm surprised, frankly, and I'm really surprised that the press hasn't made a bigger issue of it.
Q: Will the campaign itself be making a bigger issue of her transparency and finances, as you put it, in the weeks ahead?
Daschle: Well, I think it is going to be a bigger issue. But if we decide to make it one or not, I hope that the media would not give her a free ride as they have so far on this issue, and I suspect that it will become a bigger issue.
Q: Two prominent Clinton supporters, Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell and Terry McAuliffe, the former DNC chair, both this week raised the possibility of holding new primaries -- in essence, do-overs in Florida and Michigan. Would the Obama campaign support such a revote?
Daschle: Well, I think the Obama campaign certainly wants to resolve this matter fairly soon. We know something has to be done. No one won either of those states in the past, even though Hillary likes to claim success. The fact is, a decision was made by all candidates not to compete, not to participate. We have to accept that reality and try to find a way to deal with it. I like the idea of splitting them down the middle and giving both Hillary and Barack an equal number of delegates and then calling it a day.
Q: But if the governors of those states are now raising the possibility of a revote, do you think the Obama campaign would stand in the way of that and oppose it?
Daschle: Well, I think it should be on the table, regardless, and I suspect it will be.
Q: Right now you lead in both pledged delegates and cumulative popular vote, leaving aside Florida and Michigan. But it remains possible that Clinton could regain the lead in the overall popular vote, especially if Florida and Michigan are either counted or allowed to vote again. Now, your campaign has argued that the superdelegates should follow the will of the voters, but will the total popular vote be a more accurate reflection of that will than the pledged delegate count?
Daschle: Well, the total popular vote obviously puts greater emphasis on some areas of the country than others. It doesn't really provide the kind of balance that we are looking for at the convention. The delegates themselves are the ones who will be voting at the convention; they are the ones making the decisions. We ought to respect the will of the convention as proposed by the delegates themselves.
Q: During your time in the Senate, you had a reputation as a very shrewd mediator and consensus builder. Now, however these final states divide, it appears we have something very close to a tie here, in which each of the candidates have attracted coalitions that represent almost exactly half the party. Given that, what kind of thoughts do you have about how this can be resolved in a way that does not leave, essentially, half of the Democratic Party feeling disenfranchised?
Daschle: Well, I don't think that will happen. You know what I find, Ron, as I travel around the country and talk to people in virtually every state I've been in, is just a remarkable willingness to accept the verdict of this long, arduous process. People on the Obama side are more than willing to commit to campaign and work for Hillary if she is the nominee. And we would expect and hope that the same could be said of all the Clinton supporters. There isn't a degree of acrimony when you get below some of the key staff on both sides. There is a tremendous amount of support. I know probably as many Hillary supporters as I do Obama supporters and I think to a person, I hear them say that. There is a determination to stay unified and to be the strong party we know we can be.
Q: As I'm sure you heard, Senator Clinton this week seemed to hint at a potential resolution. When she was asked about the possibility of the two candidates running together on the ticket she said, "that may be where this is headed." Do you agree?
Daschle: Well, it's one option. I think that Barack is also right that it is way premature to make that decision, and obviously there is a big question as to who is on top in that matchup. So it's fun to think about, fun to consider, but it's one of many options, and I really don't think it's time to be giving it the kind of serious thought it would deserve at a later date.
Q: We wouldn't be the press if we were not irresponsibly leaping into the future, so let me ask you as a sort of general proposition: No matter which one ends up on top, do you think there would be value in the winner asking the loser to run as their vice president?
Daschle: Well, there are more than just political criteria involved in making those decisions. I want Barack Obama, if he is the nominee, to pick the best person he can think of, based on his chemistry, on who he thinks would make a great president if he -- God forbid -- would not be around and could lead the country. He has to make that judgment. She would have to make a similar judgment were she the nominee, and I think that ought to be the criteria, first and foremost.
Q: Senator Tom Daschle, thanks for joining us today.