© National Journal Group Inc.
Friday, March 21, 2008

National Journal's Linda Douglass sat down with Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., for the Mar. 21 edition of "National Journal On Air." This is a transcript of their conversation. Audio of the full show is also available.

Bayh: Thank you, Linda. Good to be with you.

Bayh: Linda, I think a fair amount of humility is in order for all political figures endorsing. I mean, all the campaigns like it. It's better to have them than not. But frankly, I think most voters are independent enough, and focused on the challenges that face the country enough, that they are going to make up their own minds regardless of any of these endorsements -- Bill's or mine or anyone else's.

Bayh: Well, the surge, not surprisingly, helped to quell violence. I mean, anytime you put in tens of thousands of more troops to patrol the streets, it will do that. But the real question, Linda, is what about the longer term? We don't have 150,000 American troops there forever. We don't want to keep spending $12 billion a month in Iraq forever.

So many of us have concluded -- and frankly, some of the leading experts that I hear from from our own government have concluded -- that we need to begin the process of removing ourselves from Iraq. We need to do it in a responsible way, and the principal reason we need to do that, Linda, is that as long as the Iraqis know we are just giving them a blank check -- basically saying that we'll be there forever -- they won't make the hard decisions and the tough compromises only they can make to build that country. So in some ways, our open-ended presence there is enabling their dysfunction. And we've got to get rid of that and get on the path for them stepping up so we can come home.

Bayh: Well, a couple of things about what you've said, Linda. First, I like John McCain. I've served with him, and I really honor the service he's given to this country, particularly his years in the military. But I would remind everybody that the next president of the United States is supposed to represent the best interests of the American people, not the Iraqis. And our ongoing presence there -- all the money we are spending, all of the blood we are spilling, has given them an opportunity. Now they need to step up. Our troops have done a wonderful job. It's the Iraqi politicians who aren't getting the job done, and now we need to put the pressure on them.

The way to do that is through an orderly withdrawal -- timed in a way to make sure that the terrorists don't come back, keeping enough residual troops there to strike any pockets that continue to be a problem, but insisting that the Iraqi military, the Iraqi police step up and start patrolling the streets so that we no longer have to. And I think that's the right way to go about it and, of course, Senator Clinton will evaluate the facts as they go on. She's been there many times -- I've been to Iraq with her personally, and I know that she talks to our generals about the most orderly way to do this.

Bayh: Well, it's a plan. Obviously, you have to adjust any plan in light of developing facts and that kind of thing. But she has been very clear about her intentions -- about one brigade per month.

Bayh: Well, their plans are fairly similar, although I see that one of his advisers was telling some others -- I think it was Samantha Power -- indicated that, well, he's got a plan but maybe it won't be the same plan he implements when he is president. So I guess they'll have to amplify on what that means.

But she does have a plan, and the thing about her, Linda -- and I saw this first-hand when I went over there. We were about to land in Baghdad. She said, "Oh, General [Raymond] Odierno is coming in as the new commander. He'll be much better than General [George] Casey -- I know this man's background." And she started going through it. We then went on to Pakistan and met with General [Pervez] Musharraf; she said, "You know, I met with him before. Let me tell you about him. He's good on these two things, but you've got to watch him on these two or three things."

So their plans are largely similar. The question is, who is experienced enough, smart enough, tough enough to actually implement those plans? And I just think, look, Barack is a great guy; he's got a lot of strengths. But I find that her seasoning, deep experience, familiarity with these issues, gives us a better chance of getting the job done.

Bayh: Well, it's an argument that John McCain can make. He's got great experience, she has experience -- they both probably have more than Senator Obama. But John is just tragically wrong about Iraq, and when he talks about staying there, you know, for as long as it takes, even up to 100 years -- that just does not understand what needs to be done to stabilize that country. It's not in the best interest of the American people. I mean, if you are the Iraqis, and we're sending $12 billion there every month -- you think they want us to leave? They want the American tax dollars to keep flowing. Of course, they'd rather have us paying the price and they don't want to make these tough compromises until they have to. And as long as we keep bailing them out -- and by John saying we're going to stay there forever, or as long as it takes, it essentially does bail them out -- it keeps us from resolving the problem.

So, yes, he has experience. He'll make that argument, but I've got to tell you, Linda, her orderly withdrawal plan versus his stay 10, 15 or 100 years -- I think the American people will know which is the right path.

Bayh: Linda, good being with you.

Advertisement